In this heart-led, soul-stirring episode, Jeff Ross sits down with faith-driven entrepreneur and AI strategist Jonathan Mast to tackle a big question: Can AI actually help you grow in your faith? They explore how AI, when used with discernment, can become a powerful support tool in discipleship, leadership, and spiritual development—without replacing the human heart behind it. If you’re curious (or skeptical) about AI and its place in the Kingdom, this one is for you.
1️⃣ AI is a Tool, Not a Replacement
AI doesn’t replace pastors or relationships—it’s like a Bible commentary or a dictionary. Use it with discernment.
2️⃣ AI + Heart = Superpower
When combined with prayer, discernment, and authentic intention, AI can deepen understanding of scripture and help believers reflect Christ more practically.
3️⃣ Faith Is a Journey—AI Can Be a Map
AI can provide context, clarity, and insight for those wrestling with scripture or looking to take their walk with Jesus deeper.
4️⃣ Comfort Zones Aren’t Kingdom Zones
AI sparked a personal challenge in Jonathan’s walk: praying with strangers at the grocery store. Why? Because growth lives just outside our comfort zone.
5️⃣ Lead with Love, Not Legalism
The global Church needs more conversations centered around unity, love, and grace—not judgment over new expressions of faith or tech adoption.
💡 "AI doesn’t have to replace your faith—it can amplify your discipleship." – Jeff Ross
💡 "I want to stand before Jesus and hear, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant.’ If AI can help me live that out, why wouldn’t I use it?" – Jonathan Mast
💡 "Technology is not the enemy—division is. Let’s choose unity, discernment, and love." – Jeff Ross
🔥 Was this conversation eye-opening for you? Share it with a friend who's skeptical about AI and faith.
🔥 Curious about our online church? DM Jeff about joining Today’s Discipleship Community—a safe space for seekers, believers, and truth-seekers exploring Jesus in a digital world.
🔥 Subscribe for more powerful episodes that merge faith, freedom, and fatherhood.
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This is Jeff Ross, signing off with Jonathan Mast for another game-changing episode of The Laptop Lifestyle Dad Show. 🦘🎙️
Jeff Ross (00:00) Well, good day legends. It's Jeff Ross here, your host for the LaptopLoss.Dad Show, coming to you from the beautiful island of Tasmania, Australia. A proud father of three energetic boys, I'm a faith driven entrepreneur, and I'm on a mission to help frustrated online marketers master AI, attraction marketing, and social selling to create a life of purpose, freedom, and impact. Hey, this podcast is all about building a business that works for you, not the other way around.
And today's episode is going to take it deep into the heart of what truly matters. You know, today's conversation is going to be a little bit different and incredibly powerful. You know, our guest here sitting with me today is Jonathan Mast, founder of Whitebeard Strategies, an AI strategist, a faith driven entrepreneur, and a kind of guy who just doesn't talk about values, but he walks them out too. He's someone who's exploring AI and faith and how they intersect.
Not from a hype point of view, but with deep wisdom, caution and purpose. We're diving into the question around, can AI actually strengthen your faith? And if so, how do we use it without compromising our truth, our integrity and our calling? So Jonathan, it's absolutely awesome to have you here today. Thank you very much for saying yes to jump you onto this interview for the LaptopLive.Dad show. Mate, I love to just dive straight in.
and talk about the journey before faith, before tech really. So I love to lead with your values, how has your faith shaped the way you approach life and business and even AI and what filters do you put in place before teaching or using AI in this space?
Jonathan Mast (01:26)
Let's do it.
Well, you I think the biggest thing to me when it comes to AI and faith is understanding that we're not ceding control over to AI. We're not asking AI to be our pastor or to be our theologian. We're asking it to be a tool, much like I might have a Bible commentary or a Bible dictionary or things like that that I'm reading. A good example for me is, know, Jeff, yesterday I'm sitting in church and we're talking about various biblical passages in the New Testament. It happened to me yesterday what we were talking about.
You know, as a typical church sermon goes, there was a key passage where we read the whole passage, but then there were a number of verses that were brought in as well. And I'm a context guy. I love to understand context. And I used AI to help me understand what was going on as Paul was writing this letter. What was the situation politically? Yesterday, we specifically talked about tax collectors because it wasn't so much about Paul. It was about when Jesus was there and why were tax collectors so reviled?
is very different than tax collectors today. And so I wanted to learn about that. I didn't necessarily learn about it during the service, but I did afterwards then take the notes I had and go in and use AI to research what was happening in Roman times. Why were these tax collectors so reviled? And why was it so significant that Jesus associated with them based on the Jewish culture at that point in time? Because to me, those are things that helped me get better grasp
and feel for what's going on overall in the system. So again, I'm not asking you to tell me what my belief should be. I need discernment as a human. But you know what? I need discernment if I'm using a commentary or if I'm reading a book I bought at the bookstore or anything else as well.
Jeff Ross (03:16)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah, no, valid point. And just as the thought that came to mind as you're explaining your point and your stand. And I'm very much in alignment with that. It's AI plus our heart really is where the superpower lies. And so it's a tool, it's a partnership. But I'm also, the thought that came to mind is, I didn't have this experience growing up. This is a story from my wife, growing up in Catholic scenario, Sunday school and all of that sort of thing.
Jonathan Mast (03:41)
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (03:58)
And, yeah, she used to ask questions and sometimes those questions would be, you know, prickly type questions, you know, that sort of, you know, no, you can't answer those type questions, ask those type questions. Cause otherwise it's going to go and make the Sunday school teacher look, probably look a little bit silly because they don't have the answers. But, I love that now AI like we essentially, it could be positioned as a Sunday school teacher in this scenario.
Jonathan Mast (04:05)
yeah, yeah.
Jeff Ross (04:26)
but not 100 % correct all the time, because AI is aimed to please us as it always aims to be right. But with our discernment and our own research and like a GPS on a car, we can ask AI those type of questions now that you're not gonna get scolded for asking the question type sort thing, right?
Jonathan Mast (04:44)
Right. Well, and in my mind, it's not
about being the Sunday School teacher. It's about being that tool that the Sunday School teacher uses to provide context, to provide value. It's about allowing me to more fully understand and comprehend. Now, I also use it for more than that. You know me. We were just talking pre-show. I am severe ADHD to the max. I'm that visionary entrepreneur, blah, blah, blah. I love prayer.
Jeff Ross (04:51)
Yeah.
Right.
Hmm.
Jonathan Mast (05:12)
And I believe one of the gifts God has given me is prayer. But one of the things I also struggle with with prayer is being able to focus on it enough that my mind doesn't go elsewhere in the middle of a prayer. Just a reality for me and people go, Jonathan, that's terrible. Well, no, that's just how God made my mind. So one of the things I do regularly is I write out my prayers because when I read them aloud, and I literally will do that, even if it's a whisper, if there's people around, I'll read it aloud.
Jeff Ross (05:13)
Mmm.
Yes. Yep, I can relate to that.
Jonathan Mast (05:40)
it allows my brain to focus on what I'm praying about. And I use AI to help me write prayers based on things. And that's the one that's gotten me the scolding on Facebook where literally I've had fellow believers who I know are well-minded are telling me that I am going straight to hell because I used AI to write a prayer. Well, I guess we'll see. I'm really comfortable I'm not. you know, again, that's where discernment's relevant because it's not coming back and
Jeff Ross (05:45)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Well.
Yes.
Jonathan Mast (06:08)
creating a prayer that's not accurate. I've trained it on the Lord's Prayer, on the way that Christ taught us to pray, and things like that throughout the Bible. And now it follows that methodology when it creates prayers for me. Sometimes it even follows it a little bit too much, and I'm like, okay, you didn't have to get in the thanks for our daily bread in there. You know what I mean? We could work around that. yeah, that's again where discernment becomes so important to me, Jeff. We need to...
Jeff Ross (06:13)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Jonathan Mast (06:36)
We don't accept it at face value. If somebody brought me a book that was written about faith, I've read books before that I didn't agree with everything. That didn't mean the entire book was invalid. Sometimes it did. But many times it just meant that the author and I disagreed on a particular issue. Rarely were those salvation issues. Those were often preferences in the way in which we practice our faith. And I've always kind of looked at that
Jeff Ross (06:44)
Yes, me too.
Yes.
Jonathan Mast (07:04)
those practices much like radio stations. You know, when I go listen, and that's a bad analogy, you're probably not old enough to remember when we actually had radio stations, but some of the audience may not be, you know. And there's different radio stations because we have different preferences. You know, my mother-in-law goes to a church that is very liturgical and very, you know, they only sing hymns and they only read out of the King James Version. And that's, you know what, that's fine.
Jeff Ross (07:13)
Yeah, yeah, you know, I remember full year's radio. I'm not that young.
Jonathan Mast (07:33)
I don't go to that church not because I believe that that's heretical or wrong, but it's not the way that I choose to worship. I prefer some drums and some guitars and I want to start dancing and when I feel that worship in the Holy Spirit's presence, now that admittedly makes my mother-in-law uncomfortable. That's not a spiritual discussion, that's a preferential way in which we choose to worship and I don't think it matters, but...
Jeff Ross (07:56)
direct.
Jonathan Mast (07:59)
That's again, that's what all starts to fill in as we start getting into these discussions.
Jeff Ross (08:04)
Well,
let's get into this. I think this is a bit of a touchy subject, so I'm gonna give it respect that it's due. And please, if you're listening to this and you feel offended by this discussion and whatnot, well then I'm gonna ask you to go pray into it and use that keyword discernment here. And so I'm gonna put that little disclaimer in here for a second, but I'm gonna call it out a little bit too, because what you're talking about there is preferences. I was an atheist 10 years ago.
Jonathan Mast (08:25)
Probably a good one.
Jeff Ross (08:33)
And I tried everything the world had to offer, got to a point where I actually got to a very dark, depressed point and I tried to kill myself. A couple of days later after that, I opened up to a friend at the time. I knew that she was a Christian, but I didn't know how much faith that she actually had. I just knew that she was a Christian. Anyway, I said she was a safe person. So I opened up to her at that time and just said, look, this is what's going on. And I just broke down.
Jonathan Mast (08:41)
Hmm.
Sure.
Jeff Ross (09:01)
And through that, like Jesus met people all the time, right? She met me where I was at and just saw the real me, not the hurting me and that type of thing. And just felt me seen, and understood. And ultimately for the first time in my life felt loved. And that sort of then led me to the journey of going, okay, right, who is this Jesus fella?
Jonathan Mast (09:06)
Mm.
I love that.
Jeff Ross (09:25)
and really wanted to explore that. so I came into relationship with Christ and now fast forward 10 years into this journey, my wife and I started an online church last year. And, know, thank you. It's called Today's Discipleship Community. So I essentially positioned myself here as an online pastor. Now I haven't gone to Bible school or, you know, study. I have done some pretty deep work in this space with my pastors in our church. So I'm not jumping in this to, you know, totally
Jonathan Mast (09:34)
Yeah, I know you've been sharing that with me. love that.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Ross (09:55)
naive and leading people astray. I've got support and leadership around me. But because I've been doing things a little bit unique and we started the online church and you know all of that you know right out there right. But all it is is just a different expression of church. We're not trying to replace traditional church. We're not trying to say what you're doing is wrong. But yet it's funny all the judgment and the condemnation that we've been getting has come from inside.
Jonathan Mast (10:12)
Yeah.
No.
Jeff Ross (10:23)
the blood, you know, when I say the big C, right? The global church and, and essentially what I call the holy rollers, you know, the, the, real religious type, you know, that type of thing. Like we did an online baptism last November and we had people saying, Oh, you can't do that. That's not the way it's going to be done. Blah, blah, blah. But when we come into it, it's exactly, there's nothing in the Bible saying that you can't have an online church. There's nothing in the Bible saying that you have to have you actually do an online, you know, a baptism.
Jonathan Mast (10:26)
Yeah, yeah. Yep.
Jeff Ross (10:53)
because per se, you know, and there's certain things around there and there's nothing in the Bible saying that we can't use tools and technology to help us to get deeper understanding in discernment. So like Bible has been my resource and my tool here and to figure out discernment as well. And then that's a spiritual heart thing between me and God in that space as well. know, and so, yeah, the word you said there is different preferences and the way that we practice our faith.
Jonathan Mast (10:53)
Yeah.
You got it.
Jeff Ross (11:20)
And I think that's a big thing to really highlight. You you look back over the centuries, over millennia, wars have been fought over this thing, you know, and how people, you know, people get really triggered. Yeah. But it's not just a contentious topic for right now. It's a contentious topic throughout the entire history, right from day one. And I think if we could just, like for me, my hope and my prayer is to help us to...
Jonathan Mast (11:29)
absolutely, this is a contentious topic.
Jeff Ross (11:46)
work out how we can come into unity, work out how we can come into reconciliation, work out how we can come into a space of love, not be divided, because I think that's the job of the devil, right? The job of the devil is to still kill, destroy and divide us, because he knows that he can control us in that space. But if we come into this space and just have conversations that meet each other in the middle and just have that space for unity and reconciliation and love, isn't that what the Great Commission's all about?
Jonathan Mast (11:53)
Yes.
I believe so, absolutely. mean, were to go, you know, what is the greatest commandment? To love one another as you love yourself, if I remember that properly. And I'm not a theologian, so I may mess up a Bible verse. I'm not claiming to be one. And then, as you said in the Great Commission, we're supposed to share God's Word, God's love, His offer of salvation. There was a song out many years ago, and I think I often remind...
Jeff Ross (12:17)
Hahaha
Mmm.
Jonathan Mast (12:42)
some of my naysayers about this. And I say naysayers, it's the fellow believers who are like, Jonathan, you can't go there. There's a song and it would, and I don't remember the name of it, but it talked about would Jesus be welcome in your church? And it talked about, imagine a man walking in barefoot, dressed in probably some not perfectly clean robes, hosting. Yeah, I mean, would that Jesus be welcome in your church?
Jeff Ross (12:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
He was homeless.
You
Jonathan Mast (13:10)
I remember that strong really hit me because that Jesus would not have been welcome in the church I grew up in. Now I'm not condemning that church, but that person would not have been welcome. Just recently in my church, we had a conversation about, know, what about if you knew a friend that had literally went out on Saturday night and gotten drunk past, you name it, and on Sunday morning reached out to you and said, I need help.
Jeff Ross (13:16)
Mmm
Jonathan Mast (13:38)
and still smelled like the bar and probably a few other things that weren't so good, would you take that person, that friend to church and sit next to them? And you know, to me, that was a great question because even myself, I had to go, well, I honestly don't know I would. But I should because Christ's love will reach them wherever they're at. As just as you talked about, you were at one of the lowest points in your life, it sounds like, when
Jeff Ross (13:48)
Powerful question.
Jonathan Mast (14:07)
you were at that spot where you would allow the Holy Spirit to impact you. And you know Christ hung out with lots of people that weren't very popular in his time here on earth, like the tax players and or tax collectors and others like that. And I just believe that we aren't called to preach to the saved. Well we certainly need to have discussions just like we're having here. I know we're gonna have a lot of believers listening in and this is I do believe the discussion is important but we're we're called to reach the lost.
Jeff Ross (14:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Mast (14:35)
You know, yesterday in church my pastor talked about how we, you know, that all heaven rejoices over that new believer more than the 99, the one sheep versus the 99. And I think we've spent too little time focusing on, we spend too much time focusing on, well, you know, should we be, thank you, thank you, that's perfect. We treat it more like a club than we do, Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So.
Jeff Ross (14:36)
Yes.
club.
The club, the club, the us versus them club. It is, it's a club.
Jonathan Mast (15:04)
You know, I see AI, because I'm a huge believer in it, I do believe it's a tool. I believe that it is not evil nor good. I don't think that AI is holy. I don't think it's unholy. I think it's a tool. And, you know, kind of like written text on pages. I mean, before the printing press, were scribes that were transcribing, and then we got the printing press, and there were lots of people worried then that that was going to ruin religion because all of a sudden we'd be able to mass disseminate, you know, text.
Jeff Ross (15:20)
Yeah.
Jonathan Mast (15:30)
That didn't happen, thankfully, and I have more trust, I think, in human beings than most, but AI is a tool.
Jeff Ross (15:36)
Yeah, well, just like a,
yeah, it is. It's just like a gun. You put a gun in a soldier's hand, you can go and defend the country with it all, but with a gun in a murderer's hand, he's gonna do some pretty evil things with it. And so AI, I don't know if it has as much power as a gun. I probably, think it has even more power. It is one of the most technological advancements of human history, but yeah, it is just a tool. Now here, let's talk, I wanna get into the ethical question of this.
the ethics side of it because like I've seen AI used in a really powerful way for both good and evil. And I want to talk about the extremes here for a second. Now I saw the other day, about probably three months ago, I can't remember the pastor's name, and probably best if I don't actually mention it anyway. Celebrity pastor. But what he'd actually done with AI is he's got all these sermons and everything like that for the last 30 years.
Jonathan Mast (16:25)
Fair enough.
Jeff Ross (16:34)
They have uploaded it to AI and through transcribe notes and all that sort of thing. And essentially created this online pastor version where people can go to this pastor through his AI, know, custom AI and ask people for, you know, and ask that pastor to pray for him, pray for those people. So basically a complete replacement of this pastor. Now, I don't know, this is where I start to think that we've gone too far with.
Jonathan Mast (16:54)
Yep.
Jeff Ross (17:03)
I don't know, what are your thoughts on that?
Jonathan Mast (17:05)
Without knowing the specific situation, it's hard to tell. I know a gentleman who wrote a prayer AI tool that allows people when they need prayer to go to the AI tool and the AI will write them a prayer that they can use and they can pray. And I don't have a problem with that. I'm willing, now is there a risk? Of course there's risk. And I think now we get out of AI and really start talking about relationships and setting expectations. If that
Jeff Ross (17:08)
Mm.
Yeah, I've seen those tools. Yeah, that's cool.
Mm.
Yes.
Jonathan Mast (17:35)
to replace a pastor with AI? No, I don't think that's a good idea. Any more than I... But yet I also think, are there things that a pastor does? So for example, basic counseling. Let's say that I've lost a loved one and I need to go through some grief counseling. The reality is I don't know any pastor out there that has more time than they do tasks. And unfortunately, that...
Jeff Ross (17:39)
No, I don't...
Mmm.
Jonathan Mast (17:57)
I know it causes burnout amongst pastors, it causes family issues with pastors and lots of... We don't like to talk about those things because it's uncomfortable, but it's a reality. Well, if we could use AI to help with offload some of that, let's say again, I need to deal with grief. Instead of waiting until I can talk to my pastor, I should still talk to my pastor about that. But what about if there's an AI tool that's been trained on biblical ways to deal with grief that I can have access to that could help me
Jeff Ross (18:01)
It's huge.
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Mast (18:27)
walk through that process, not just at two in the afternoon when my pastor's available, but at two in the morning when I can't sleep and I'm crying. To me, that's using the tool in the right way. And again, I know there's some fine lines there, so I don't mean to skirt the question, but without seeing it, it's kind of hard to say, but I absolutely don't believe AI replaces actually any of this. I think AI amplifies our skill and experience and
Jeff Ross (18:34)
Yep. Yep. I guess powerful.
Jonathan Mast (18:53)
Therefore, it should allow pastoral teams to be able to do some things more efficiently, but it by no means takes them away from that.
Jeff Ross (19:02)
Yeah, well, I think the key word there is, is it's amplification versus replacement. And I think that's where it's, where it's, if it's all about supporting what you're doing and still keeping the human in the loop and looking to amplify and, you know, get rid of bottlenecks and, there also be a support there for 2am in the morning just to get through those few hours and then go connect with the passer and the human in the loop. I think, yeah, that's a brilliant tool.
Jonathan Mast (19:07)
Yeah, agreed.
Exactly.
Jeff Ross (19:29)
But it's when people start looking for ways to escape their responsibilities. And I think that's the, yeah, exactly right.
Jonathan Mast (19:35)
As with anything in life, you know. The other thing I hear a lot and I need to
mention, I hope you don't mind me going there, but people talk all the time, but the tools also used for bad. And I want to look at every tool that's out there. You know, I'm a huge photography nut. I love taking photos and I love my camera. Now it's mainly my iPhone, but I love that. But we could just as easily say because the porn industry has used the camera.
Jeff Ross (19:45)
Mm.
Mm.
Jonathan Mast (20:01)
to share pornography, that the camera is evil. But the camera's not evil, the photography's not evil, because I can also take and look at, thank you, and it's the user. And so, yes, AI is probably used for some things that shouldn't be used. So is video, so is photo, so is the internet. But that doesn't mean that, you I watched just yesterday, where we moved, as you know, to Alabama recently in the United States, and so.
Jeff Ross (20:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
The intent behind it is.
Mm.
Jonathan Mast (20:28)
We have a church we go to down here, but I still like staying in touch with the church that we used to go to. And I watched that sermon via video. Not having access to that sermon because we decided not to use video or not to use the internet would not have done anything positive, but watching it was. And so again, there's many people go, but it's been used for bad things. You know what? Many things have, you know, we, there are people that use cars as suicide bombers. That doesn't mean we stop driving them.
Jeff Ross (20:53)
Yeah, that's all.
Jonathan Mast (20:58)
It's that intent, that person behind it.
Jeff Ross (21:01)
Exactly. Look, you know, and I said, I started an online church there 12 months ago and I'll freely admit like I read the Bible. I attempt to read the Bible. I'm not perfect at it. I like to start my day every day and spend half an hour with God. And, know, I use the online Bible from Holy, you know, Holy Bible, so Bible.com. And so I'll read a chapter. I've got a, I've got a reading plan that I follow and I'll read a chapter a day. You know, currently I'm going through Acts again.
And you know, basically what the whole idea is, is before I, you know, started using technology and AI, a pastor friend of mine taught me this tool called soaping. You know, so to journal in the Bible, not just read it, but to apply it to our lives and look for ways for them to go from our head to our heart. So soaping, so it's an acronym. So scripture, observation, application, and prayer, right? So.
Jonathan Mast (21:55)
I love it.
Jeff Ross (21:56)
I'm dyslexic, I'm ADHD, my grammar's atrocious, and my writing's messy as. So to go through and do this soaping practice and write it out on a journal, all those limitations used to stop me from doing it. Like I'd get up in my head and just go, nah, I can't do this. But I, I, I, I, I, I, I,
Jonathan Mast (22:15)
Been there, done that, yes, absolutely.
Jeff Ross (22:24)
and really get right into it. And just going through, like I've read the chapters probably 10 different times, but now using AI to help me to explain it in a deeper, more contextual way, you know, using hermeneutics and you know, those types of things to be able to help me to have a deeper understanding. It's like, it's like the, the, the layers of the onion going deeper and deeper and deeper, which is helping me to be a more effective leader in the online church space. And then
Jonathan Mast (22:37)
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Jeff Ross (22:53)
You know, like we've got our, you know, running an online church. It's like, we've got to map out, you know, our messages for the whole year. So we've got a through line going. So we're empowering and we're equipping people and we're helping them to become more effective disciples of Christ. like AI has played an integral part right down to my own spiritual practices with soaping to help me get, you know, articulate my thoughts in a more coherent way with our prayers.
And I know that's how you're using AI as well. So I love to just sort of unpack this. What are some of the tips and strategies? Like if someone's listening to this podcast, they're going, right, all skepticism is aside now. Love to just dive in and really be empowered to use AI as a tool to help me my faith grow and go deeper. What would you recommend? Where would people start and how would they go about that journey?
Jonathan Mast (23:25)
Absolutely.
Well, whatever AI tool they have is probably the right one. So let me begin with that. They don't need a special AI tool. ChatGPT, Gemini, Quad, Perplexity, whatever they've got access to is perfectly fine.
Jeff Ross (23:54)
I still love chat-shipping,
I keep coming back to it all the time.
Jonathan Mast (23:58)
I was just on another podcast about an hour ago and Jeff, they asked me on that, what one do you use the most? And I said, chat GPT hands down. mean, and part of it is their custom GPT's. I love that and I can train it on stuff. So don't worry about buying a specific model or whatever you have is going to be perfectly fine and it's going to be suitable. And then I would really say follow your heart and what questions are coming up and what things are of interest to you. Like I said, I love to understand context. And so
Jeff Ross (24:05)
Yup.
Hmm.
Jonathan Mast (24:27)
I didn't live in the Roman world and I love to understand why were these tax collectors hated. And I spent some time after church reading through some things that shared about why they were hated and how the structure was. And to me, while that doesn't directly impact my faith, it provides me context that helps me understand how important it was that Jesus Christ hung out with these people that everyone hated.
Jeff Ross (24:35)
Yeah, it's-
Yeah.
Jonathan Mast (24:53)
And then
to evaluate in my life, and I asked this question, okay, so Christ hung out with the tax collectors and others like them, prostitutes and you name it. What can I take into my daily activities this week to emulate some of what Christ did? Now, sometimes it comes up with stuff I'm like, nah, that's not me, or nah, I don't think so. And you know what? I don't write off the tool.
Jeff, it's no different than if I had asked you that question, you might come up with a couple ideas that didn't resonate with me. It doesn't mean you're wrong. It doesn't mean that you're, it just, have different perspectives, but it did give me some perspectives on that of things that I could do on a daily basis to help be more welcoming to maybe some of those that are less loved and less liked within our society. And one of the ideas it gave me very, very simply is it said, you know, this week when you go to the market, be open.
Jeff Ross (25:23)
Mm.
Mmm.
Jonathan Mast (25:43)
pray that God would provide someone that you could pray with. Now, it's interesting because that's something I'm very uncomfortable with in public. I've done it and I'm trying to get better at it, but to see someone who I don't know and to walk up and just ask, could I pray with you? Is is admittedly something I find uncomfortable, but I've learned that if I let the Holy Spirit guide that, so I'm going to go and I'm going to shop at the market. If I walk into the store and I say, OK,
Jeff Ross (25:47)
Wow.
Hmm.
Jonathan Mast (26:12)
Lord, if there's somebody in here that I'm supposed to be praying for, I'm just gonna ask that you point that out. I'm willing and I'm able and I'm uncomfortable and I share that, yeah, I am uncomfortable. But I feel this is important to do based on the Great Commission and how I feel you're causing me to grow. And so this week when my wife and I go to the store, she'll know going in, because I'll tell her, because she'll then give me space if she feels she needs or whatever.
that I'm going to be going through the store, not just looking for what vegetables I want to buy and what things I want to get and my favorite hot sauce, but I'm also going to be literally trying to listen for that nudging of the Holy Spirit to go see that person. And that may be all it is. It may simply be that somebody stands out to me that hasn't before. And I then have to trust that based upon my prayer walking in, I'm going to do that. Now, none of that has anything to do with AI, but AI did give me the idea.
And I then reviewed the idea and thought, you know what, this fits into what I'm doing and how to reach maybe somebody else. Certainly how to get me out of my comfort zone, because what it ended up really doing, it talked about how so often as Christians and individuals, it's not so much about the person, it's our comfort zone. We don't want to get out of our comfort zone. And what's a way for Jonathan to get out of his comfort zone this week? Well, when I walk into the grocery store and I feel that nudging to
First of all, acknowledge that that may be what the Holy Spirit has in mind. Not guaranteed. I'm not going there to proselytize and to hit everybody over the head with the Bible. I may walk out and not pray for anybody if the Holy Spirit doesn't lead me. But I may pray for three people if the Holy Spirit, and I'm open to that leading, to that option if it exists.
Jeff Ross (27:54)
I've just had a bit of a light bulb moment go off, where the way you're describing your use of how you're leveraging AI to be able to support you on your journey. And the question here is, wanna ask is, is because AI doesn't have any emotions, right? It's not an emotional being. And because you're now, you know, really empowered and leveraging AI to help support you on this journey, does...
Jonathan Mast (28:10)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Ross (28:22)
Like, and it's a two way conversation, right? You like, you look, you talk, you're talking to me right now. It's a two way conversation. Does that, does that approach because you're, having a conversation with a, you know, technology without any sort of emotions. I've almost called it a being. It's not a being yet. That's not such a, yet, but because that, you know, essentially what you're describing is, is the same sort of conversation that you would have with a mentor.
Jonathan Mast (28:25)
Sure.
Absolutely.
No, no, it's not sentient. Yeah, no, it's not sentient.
Jeff Ross (28:51)
coach, a pastor, right? That's guiding you on that journey, but you're having the same sort of conversation, but because there's no emotion on the other side of it, because there's no agenda on the other side of it, do you feel that that's helped you on your discipleship walk and help you to become a more effective disciple?
Jonathan Mast (28:52)
Mm hmm. Yep.
Well, it's availability, if nothing else to me. So being someone with ADD, my team laughs at me all the time. We just recently discovered this. was at an event and they had an expert on ADHD speaking and he talked about how people with ADD have two times, now and not now. And I shared that with my team and my team started laughing and they go, is it Jonathan? That is so you. It is now and not now. if it's not now,
Jeff Ross (29:10)
Mmm.
Yep, I can relate.
Jonathan Mast (29:36)
It's not now and not now may never become now. It's just the reality of life. And one of the things that for me is why it's so impactful is when I have that thought, I don't have to take a note and hope I get back to it later. I don't have to wait to talk to my pastor about it. I can, and I often will when it's appropriate, but I don't, I don't require my pastor's guidance to give me permission to determine would it be okay for me to pray with a stranger at the grocery store?
Jeff Ross (29:49)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Jonathan Mast (30:06)
I can,
I as a believer can look at that and go, there is nothing that I can find that would cause that to be problematic for my faith. In fact, just the opposite. So I don't need, I don't need the pastor to go, yeah, Jonathan, that'd be okay for you to pray for a stranger. I don't need that. I don't, but I may not have come up with the idea had I not been able to dig into again and think of the progression here. Sunday morning, talking about
Jeff Ross (30:16)
Mm. Mm.
Mmm.
Jonathan Mast (30:34)
a whole bunch of things, but a big part of it was just sharing Christ with others. Tax collector got stuck in my head for whatever reason, probably because in the U.S. we're coming up on tax season. Me looking in and learning why were tax collectors so hated in the Roman Empire? And then the realization through the discussion I was having, because it is a conversation, but keep in mind it's more like having a conversation with a commentary versus a person. I know it's not a person, but it has a vast array of knowledge.
Jeff Ross (30:48)
Mmm.
Mm.
Jonathan Mast (31:01)
And out of that conversation came the, this is really about associating and sharing with people who make you uncomfortable, not just the people that you're comfortable with. So it's not the people, you're not called to share Christ with the people sitting next to you in church on Sunday. They're already there. They're already in church. Now, maybe there's a special circumstance, but we're called to reach the people that aren't in church on Sunday morning, that aren't going there for a particular reason. And sometimes,
That puts us in uncomfortable scenarios. And as we talked through that, the idea came up with, Jonathan, and I've trained my AI on who I am. You believe that prayer is one of the spiritual gifts that you have and you've admitted you struggle with that. You'd sometimes know what about, and it had the idea, what about if this week when you're out and about, you ask a stranger to see if you could pray for them. And that progression.
Jeff Ross (31:54)
Love it.
Jonathan Mast (31:57)
It didn't begin there. This was a conversation. It is absolutely my belief that that will positively impact my faith journey. But even more importantly, it may be a seed that the Holy Spirit allows me the privilege of planting in somebody else's life. And that, you know, it kind of goes back to my end goal. Somebody asked me, said, Jonathan, what's your end goal? You're 55. You've got to get, you know, another
Jeff Ross (31:59)
Mm. Mm.
Mmm. I love it.
Jonathan Mast (32:26)
15, 20 years of work, what's your end goal? And my end goal is really simple. I want to stand in front of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior in heaven, and I want to hear. Now I'm going to tear up, I always do. Well done, good and faithful servant. If I can achieve that, truly nothing else matters. And so as I'm working through that, with that being kind of my guidepost that I'm looking for, what can I do today
Jeff Ross (32:46)
direct.
Jonathan Mast (32:54)
to ultimately hear that from my Lord and Savior, well done good and faithful servant. I need to be open to doing things that sometimes I may not want to do because God, I don't see any place in the Bible that God called me to stay in my comfort zone.
Now it may exist, I'm not a theologian, I've read through the Bible a number of times, I am not a trained pastor, maybe it exists, but I'm not aware of any spot that's ever hit me that I'm instructed to stay within my comfort zone. In fact, I can think of spots where I've been pushed, exactly. So therefore, if I wanna hear well done and good and faithful servant, then I need to be willing to be pushed out of my comfort zone. And I'll admit, I've asked AI to help.
Jeff Ross (33:13)
God,
Nah, I think it's the complete opposite.
Jonathan Mast (33:36)
do that help challenge me you and I both know AI can be really friendly and tell us every idea we've got is brilliant and that is amazing but if we also say look your job is to challenge me as iron sharpens iron and your job is to push me into uncomfortable situations that still are biblically aligned then it will help do that it's not telling me what to do if I'm not an autonotone that's going I have to do it told me that's I'm gonna know but
It's like having our conversation today and all of a sudden going, you know, I had a great conversation with Jeff and a light bulb went off, just like you said, and I've got an idea. And if AI can help do that, then for me, for me, I'm not saying for anybody else, it's a great tool.
Jeff Ross (34:17)
Yeah, I look at everything and here's the key word to sermon again. And if I can look at everything that if it's a tool or a conversation or a person or a book or whatever, and it helps me bring me closer to God, then great, let's go. But if it becomes a, let's say it's a bridge between me and God, if it's like, know, positioning myself as an online pastor and all that sort thing, my responsibility is to be a bridge to take people closer to God.
Jonathan Mast (34:38)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Jeff Ross (34:46)
And, if I become a block or if the tool becomes a block or a wall, then that's where I'm probably falling over, falling short of the responsibility. And so I look at, you know, at everything through that lens and essentially like, yeah, and looking at everything too, leadership is influence and influence is leadership, right? And, you know, John Maxwell, 21 laws of leadership, that's essentially one of the irrefutable laws of leadership.
Jonathan Mast (34:54)
Absolutely.
That's a good one.
Yep.
Jeff Ross (35:15)
And, you know, I've been looking at, you know, applying all of these, the great wisdom from all of these, you know, these great legends like John Maxwell and all that sort of thing to help me to become a better speaker, a better trainer. And, know, if you look at discipleship 101, it's to help people become fishers and men and to help them to fish for themselves, not to rely on other men to fish for them. You know, what is the saying? You feed a man a fish for the night, you're feeding for a day. You teach him about a fish, you're feeding for life.
Jonathan Mast (35:33)
Yes.
Yes.
Exactly.
Jeff Ross (35:46)
And essentially,
I love that's what you're doing and positioning yourself in that space to help be a pioneer in the AI faith space. And I think it is, you know, it's just another tool, but it's the same conversations that have been happening for thousands of years. just, we now have a tool to help us to bring us closer to God, I reckon, as a bridge and amplify that journey. And for some of us, speed that journey up because clarity, know, clarity.
brings in a deeper understanding and it goes through that, you know, informed to understanding to, know, how it all works, to understanding why it all works. And that's where we all sort of get to, right? Is that deep why stuff, know, theologians and philosophical people have been questioning that, you know, that life of purpose all the time, right? So, I mean, I love this. I could talk about this all day long.
Jonathan Mast (36:26)
Absolutely.
No doubt.
Well, we need to
do this again. definitely...
Jeff Ross (36:41)
We do, I think we need a part
two for this. But I just want to wrap up. So talking about leadership, talking about essentially discipleship, what opportunities do you see for faith-based leaders, pastors, creatives like you and I to use AI to amplify their message while keeping Christ at the center? suppose, you know, if you had the opportunity to leave with our audience that one thing, that one takeaway, that one piece to help them to go.
become more effective in their walk and discipleship, what would that be?
Jonathan Mast (37:13)
Boy, that is a difficult question, believe it or not. I think, you know, if we're talking about anyone, a person of faith who wants to deepen it is, I would literally go back and say, what is one thing you could do today? One part of your faith journey that you feel you're struggling with. And for many of us, may mean first we have to figure out what we're struggling with. But be curious and try one.
Jeff Ross (37:38)
Mmm.
Jonathan Mast (37:43)
new thing today. Whether that's helping you with a prayer, whether that's giving you an idea of how you can be more Christ-like. If you're not sure, you know what? Just go and put the following prompt into any AI tool. I'm a Christian and I'd like to be more Christ-like. Could you give me five ideas of things I could do in my daily life to be more Christ-like? Just put that in and be open that maybe, just maybe, the Holy Spirit
Jeff Ross (38:05)
Brilliant.
Jonathan Mast (38:11)
may speak to you through that because of course God controls everything and maybe you'll be touched and if you're not don't give up on it then try it again. It's not a replacement but except as we talked about it's not a replacement for ministry it's not a replacement for pastors or missionaries or anybody else it is a tool much like a concordance or a commentary or a bible dictionary.
Jeff Ross (38:36)
that Jonathan. Wow. Thank you. That was definitely a good note to end on. So if this has been a refreshing, truth-filled conversation for you, I'd love to know, you know, what are your thoughts on it? Like leave us a comment below on your finest on YouTube, Spotify or Apple and Jonathan, where can people connect with you to, to plug into your conversations, to your community, to your influence? How can they connect with you?
Jonathan Mast (39:01)
Real simply, they just need to go to JonathanMast.com. That's M-A-S-T slash Linktree. So my name, Jonathan Mast, and again, forward slash Linktree. Tons of free resources, a few that are paid, but many ways to reach out and connect with me.
Jeff Ross (39:15)
You're definitely an aspirational leader. I thank you for everything that you bring to the table. I loved have getting to know you over this last 12 months and, and you know, being in the same circle of influence in a way. And you know, you've been a mentor from me from afar and I've learned so much when it comes to the AI space. I appreciate everything that you bring to the table.
Jonathan Mast (39:24)
Me too.
Well, Jeff, I can see the same thing. You know, it's iron sharpens iron and you have taught me things as well and been an inspiration on the same token. So thank you.
Jeff Ross (39:43)
Thank you. Well guys, this episode has been brought to you by our online church, today's discipleship community. We have a faith-based community of seekers, new believers, and anyone really who's wanting to grow in their walk with Jesus. We do things a little bit different. Essentially, it's online group discussion, just like John was talking about iron sharp and iron. So we host Bible studies. We even do virtual baptisms. I know that's a bit really, a bit different, right?
And, but it's more about the real, the raw, the vulnerable discussions about faith and life and getting into it and having that safe space to be able to question, to be able to doubt, to be able to find Jesus's truth, to be able to expand your life and help you to live a life full of purpose. Hey, if you're curious about looking for an authentic tribe, come check us out. We're on Facebook. We're going to be starting a website soon. But if you're the best place to come to us, just come and chat to me.
and we can explore to see if it's a good fit together. You'll find all the links on the show notes below. And let's go grow together in grace or truth. Jonathan, before we wrap up mate, it wouldn't be a laptop lifestyle dad's episode if we didn't wrap up with a dad joke. And I've been exploring here with AI a little bit to help me to come up with some unique ones. And this is what Chatty's come up with us today. So Jonathan, why didn't the AI go to Sunday school?
Jonathan Mast (41:06)
Well, I've been terrible with these jokes. I have no idea.
Jeff Ross (41:09)
Well, because it keeps skipping the Old Testament updates.
Jonathan Mast (41:15)
I like it. I like it. That's good.
Jeff Ross (41:19)
Legends as always, stay caffeinated, stay legendary and never forget to share this with your audience to be able to get this word out there to be able to serve and make an impact on their lives. You don't need to be perfect to lead, you just need to be real, grounded and willing to grow. Hey, this is Geoff Ross and Jonathan Maas signing off for the Laptop Lifestyle Dad Show. Catch you on the next episode.