In this powerfully heart-led episode, Jeff Ross is joined by Dreamcatcher Podcast host Mark Larsen, a champion of authentic leadership and connection-first marketing. Together, they dive into the heart of attraction marketing, faith-driven entrepreneurship, and have an honest, respectful conversation about the role of AI in today’s world. It’s a thoughtful dialogue that highlights the need for ethics, empathy, and authenticity in an age of automation.
1️⃣ Attraction Marketing Is About Being YOU
You don’t need to chase—when you show up as your true self, the right people come to you.
2️⃣ AI Is a Tool—But Humans Must Stay in the Loop
Used with heart, AI can amplify your impact. But misused, it can disconnect us from what makes us human.
3️⃣ Leadership Is Showing the Way, Not Controlling the Journey
True leaders help others uncover their gifts and walk their path with purpose, not pressure.
4️⃣ There’s a Moral Responsibility in Tech Adoption
Ethics, discernment, and community must guide how we integrate AI into our lives and leadership.
5️⃣ Authentic Intelligence Matters More Than Ever
AI can enhance—but never replace—real stories, lived experience, and genuine connection.
💡 “Attraction marketing is just showing the world who I am—no mask, no chasing.” – Mark Larsen
💡 “AI + Heart = Your Superpower… it’s about enhancement, not replacement.” – Jeff Ross
💡 “Don’t automate human connection—once we do that, we’ve missed the whole point.” – Jeff Ross
🔥 If this episode challenged or inspired you, drop a comment or DM Jeff—we’d love to hear your thoughts.
🔥 Share this with a friend who needs to hear both sides of the AI conversation.
🔥 Subscribe, review, and leave your best dad joke—we just might feature it in the next episode!
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🧠 Stay caffeinated. Stay legendary.
And remember—whether it’s tech or tactics, your values will always be your greatest brand asset.
This is Jeff Ross, signing off with Mark Larsen for another heart-centered episode of The Laptop Lifestyle Dad Show. 🎙️🦘
Jeff Ross (00:00) Well, good day legends. Welcome back to LaptopLoss.DadShow. I'm your host, Jeff Ross, a proud dad of three boys. I'm down here in Australia. I'm an entrepreneur. I live down here in Tasmania. And I'm your caffeinated kangaroo on a mission, designed help to network marketers, affiliate marketers, and online entrepreneurs to break free from the grind, master AI, social selling, and attraction marketing, and finally build a business that works for you.
Hey, this show is about helping you to leverage tools, strategies and leadership to create the freedom and the impact your life and business needs. And today's episode, well, it's gonna be a different one that you're probably used to. Yeah, our guest here today, Mark Larson is a man who lives and breathes authentic leadership in attraction marketing. He's the host of the Dreamcatcher podcast, a storyteller and someone who has built a career on real human connection.
But here's what makes today's episode a little bit different. It's going to be super interesting because Mark is not really a fan of AI. You all know my position on it. It's about AI plus our heart equals our superpower. But Mark's position here is he believes artificial intelligence is no match for authentic intelligence. The real, the raw, the human to human connection that has been built businesses for centuries really is, you know,
is long for algorithms. It's not here for the automation that's coming to play. I think there's a middle ground here and I'm actually looking forward to this discussion. So we're going to dive deep into the power of attraction marketing, storytelling leadership, and we'll respectfully tackle the AI debate here. You know, I love conversations like this because we don't all have to agree on everything, right? We get this place to where we can learn, grow and expand our perspectives.
So buckle up legends, let's get into it. This is gonna be a fun one. So Mark, I'd love to just probably open up for our listeners here and give them a sense of who you are. So if you could just share your story in two minutes or less, that'd be great. And then we can get into the interview.
Mark Larsen (01:52)
Thank
Okay. it basically started with, my wife getting cancer, having cancer a couple of years, ago. basically people were not getting their dreams. started this, I mean, actually my fourth year of the dream catcher podcast. one thing cancer is as real as it gets, I mean, she, she beat it and, is doing well in the other room. So, but it's just, I found that the connection we got from the people that the hospital.
at everybody that I kind of from then on, because it kind of changed my whole mindset. And yeah, I just I, I'm not a fan of anything artificial, know, sweetener, flowers, whatever. And I just love I, you get me talking. And I will be talking forever at a coffee shop or something like that. I like the authentic. And that's why the Dreamcatcher is almost a 290, 80 episodes. And, and I just
That is who I am.
Jeff Ross (03:05)
Yeah, I love that. And,
you know, 280 episodes in, right? That's, that's obsession. That's passion, like, you know, to drive that. So I totally get the heart behind it all. actually been blessed to be interviewed on your podcast and share my story. And, and, you know, that's what it's all about, right? It's, it's about that, that heart to heart connection, those stories and,
Mark Larsen (03:10)
Yep.
Yes.
Jeff Ross (03:27)
You know, I don't think AI is really here to be used as a replacement. I totally agree. But I think it can be used as a tool to amplify and enhance what's already there. Good or bad, right? It's going to be able to be able to amplify that's there, right? And, you know, this is an interesting topic. So thank you very much for, you know, putting your hand up to get into this with me. So let's just, we'll ease into it. So.
Mark Larsen (03:47)
Cheers.
Okay.
Jeff Ross (03:53)
Let's go into attraction marketing versus chasing first. And you know, I feel like that's probably something that's been around anyway for a while. so Mark, you built your whole business around attraction marketing. I love that because I'm an attraction marketer as well. And it's about pulling people in rather than chasing them, right? It's that pull versus push style sort of marketing. Can you share what attraction marketing looks like for you in action?
Mark Larsen (04:06)
Yes.
Amen, yes.
Actually, attraction marketing is just showing the world who I am, you know, making actually is rather than chasing because I had one time I did chase and then I'm gonna bring God into it. And he's like, I don't want you to, you know, chase this. I want you to track people with the God given things that I gave to you and just show people, you know, that this is Mark, you know, just put the authentic of who I am, you know, and no, no mask or nothing.
Jeff Ross (04:24)
Mmm.
Mark Larsen (04:49)
And it's been very interesting because the people, the right people are attracted to that. I don't ever have to chase because they find me and I love that. It's been so cool that it's just like, I kind of sometimes smile? like, that was you God that put that person in my path. And it's and it's a win-win because I get to be myself. I never have to put a mask on and they can take me or leave me.
Jeff Ross (05:13)
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, you can get come into that ownership of it, right? And, and I, what I call the law of magnetism, like, you know, you're either attracted to my, my energy, and we like magnets, it's like, boom, connection, or it's not. And it's the other way. And that's okay. And that's okay. Look, you know, when I first came to faith 10 years ago, I was so on fire for it, everybody had to, you know, hear about this good news, the
Mark Larsen (05:20)
Yes, yes.
Yes. Yes.
Jeff Ross (05:42)
the absolute best thing in the world for us, for our soul. And so I was crazy enough, went door knocking around our town and asking people if they'd like to receive prayer. And so that was push style marketing, And I probably got it probably a thousand doors shut on my face. I maybe got maybe three people who said yes. So I right? There's three people still, but I realized that
Mark Larsen (05:49)
Wow.
huh.
Three people.
Yep.
Jeff Ross (06:10)
that's that aggressive sort of in your face type sort of real, you know, chasing people is not gonna work really quickly. So I learned how to, I read a really great book from Dave Ferguson. He's actually a pastor in Chicago and he created this blessed second, this acronym called Bless. So everything begins, with, B would begin with prayer, L for listen with care, E for eat.
you know, eat at the table because there's something that happens around when you get to eat with people in hospitality. And then the first S was about service. like, you leading through service and meeting people where they're at and offering to help whatever capacity that looks like with our time, tells and treasures. And then in the final S then becomes that story, you know, so like by the time you've built that rapport, that trust, you know, people know, know like and trust you now.
It gives us that opportunity to invite people into listening to a story, right? I think that's a beautiful thing of around how to do attraction marketing and just slow it down and meet people where they're at. You know, with my ADHD and my passion, I've had to learn how to find things to slow it down, to do it authentically. And so you talk a lot about, you know, authentic intelligence and I love that term.
Mark Larsen (07:13)
Yes.
True.
Jeff Ross (07:31)
You know, in a world where people are so many, and especially online, right, they're all focused on the tactics, they're all focused on the automation, they're all focused on the algorithm game, essentially what I call vanity metrics. What does real leadership look like for you in this space?
Mark Larsen (07:39)
Yes.
Okay.
Whoop, I didn't catch that. What is the real what?
Jeff Ross (07:49)
What does real leadership look like for you in this space?
Mark Larsen (07:51)
Oh, the leadership,
gotcha. It's actually showing people the way, you know, because people, I believe they all have things they want to do, get screens, and most of them don't start because for one thing, life happens time. There's too many things there that, but showing them that it's possible, with everything that Sheryl and I went through with all the expenses of the medical stuff, but showing them their gift. I believe God gave every person a gift and showing them the least starting the path.
Jeff Ross (07:55)
you
Mmm.
Mark Larsen (08:19)
to using that gift to make the world a better place. Because I truly believe everybody's got a gift. are buried deeper than others, I definitely believe. But I've met so many people that have a gift and then they went and looked at the money, you know, and then kind of dismissed the gift. And I talked to a lady yesterday, was gonna be, she's getting out of school in just a few months and she's gonna be an accountant. And I said, was that the dream? She says, no, that's not the dream.
Jeff Ross (08:22)
Mmm.
Mark Larsen (08:46)
And it's just like, my gosh, God, please. I always say if God gave you the dream, he gave you the wherewithal to get that dream. Probably not going to be easy because you have to develop into the person that can keep that dream. know, and, but so many people just, they, they, I think a lot of them don't see the gift. see that they got to make money. They got to make a living, you know, and that gets in the way for most people.
And I was that same way. I did restaurant management out of college. my gosh, we never recommend that for anybody. after a while, took a while, I finally woke up and it's like, you know, this really sucks. If I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do something I wanna do. And the money will be there. And actually it has been there. Just sometimes, just barely there in time. But yeah, it's just that, show people the way, show them their gift.
Jeff Ross (09:40)
It's a different conversation when you're living out this space and you're gifting and your heart. And as you say, it's not driven about money. It's more driven about legacy, purpose, impact, right? And, you know, going into that space, like I went through my own journey. It sounds like you've gone through your journey to get to this space as well. And, you know, we're both in our own way, helping others to do the same thing.
Mark Larsen (09:52)
Yes, yes.
Jeff Ross (10:06)
It's challenging, right? Like to get people to go through that journey, because I reckon that journey, especially like, let's give it a monetary value figure so we can bring some context into it. That journey from zero to $10,000, you know, like that's a hard one, $10,000 per month, because you've got to go in and do some real deep inner transformation work, mindset work, know, heart work, all that space to be able to dig in and get through to the other side of that.
Mark Larsen (10:16)
Okay.
It is.
Jeff Ross (10:35)
and become, you need to become someone different, right? So how do you help people transition through that journey?
Mark Larsen (10:38)
You do.
You know, I show a way, it seems like me talking, which is something that, cause I was very, very quiet when I was younger, that they seem to resonate with what I'm saying. And they're looking, people are looking for something else. They're not happy. And then it's just by chance, which is not my chance. I'm there showing what I'm doing. And it's like, somebody at your age can do this. You know, cause I had a handyman business, had a handyman business for 21 years, which was awesome. But it's just like, people are like, shouldn't you be retiring? It's like, which I will never retire.
Jeff Ross (10:52)
Mmm.
Love that.
Mark Larsen (11:12)
If I'm doing something, just don't, it's not in my vocabulary, but it's just kind of, they kind of can ask me questions on how I did it. And it's if it's possible for me, it's possible for you, but just kind of answer their questions, you know, and just show them basically if they listen to my Facebook posts or which resonates more than I'm surprised with that. But they resonate with what I'm saying. And it's just like,
Jeff Ross (11:12)
Yeah.
Mark Larsen (11:41)
They're looking for hope. You know, they're looking for another way.
Jeff Ross (11:43)
Yeah, they're
definitely right. So that's the whole thing, right? It's about creating connection and trust and giving people avenues and pathways to hope, love, joy and life in their life. You know, bring more life into it, right? Instead of just waking up every day and stayed stuck in the trap really and just going through survival mode just to get through the other end of the day. It's sad watching people go through that. It's very sad.
Mark Larsen (11:50)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yep.
It is. Yeah.
Jeff Ross (12:13)
Cool. All right. So let's dive into the AI conversation. I know that you're not a big fan of it and totally respect that. You know what? I wasn't a fan of it when I first started to. When I first come across ChatGPT, I've actually got a video up there. I've left it up on YouTube about probably, where was it now? Early 2023. And so I came across ChatGPT, like you, I'm an attraction market for the last 15 years and all about,
Mark Larsen (12:16)
Yeah.
Okay.
Good.
Jeff Ross (12:41)
authentic relationships and heart to heart connections. And I got onto ChatGPT and I started using it and I've just gone, this totally sucks. I've got to talk about it. I can't just hold back. I don't know what people are talking about. It just totally sucks. And so I put up a post, I put up some story and it was just dry, it was robotic, it like it definitely wasn't me. It had the bullet points of it all.
Mark Larsen (12:44)
Right.
huh.
Jeff Ross (13:09)
but there was no personality, there was no connection to it. And so I was pretty much going on, know, chatting with people, said, stay away from it, you don't wanna go near it, it will ruin your business. But then I actually saw people like Jeff J. Hunter, Jonathan Maast and a few others in this space and I saw them actually using it in a way that it was amplifying their voice and it was lifting them up, not a replacement.
Mark Larsen (13:13)
Right.
Thanks
Jeff Ross (13:36)
but it was definitely a tool to enhance what they were doing. And I thought, I've got to eat some humble pie here and figure it out. And so that's been my journey since, you know, 2023. So I respect that, you know, you're not a fan of it, but I want to get into it. Can you share some of the ways that you've seen AI hurt people in business?
Mark Larsen (13:57)
Actually, just even locally, we've been having people hurt with AI because it's impersonating people. And this one lady that is a friend of ours, 25, lost all her, I mean, had gotten her voice and everything and basically intimidated, know, or imitated her. And there's been like three people, and I don't live in that big a community, it's people, especially that age group can't figure out what is real and what's fake. And that is one of my things about it is,
Jeff Ross (14:20)
Mmm, yep.
Mark Larsen (14:26)
You know, I do, like Riverside. There's a lot of AI in Riverside and I do like what it does there. I feel like I'm cheating, you know, when I get to have it write out and all that stuff. I mean, I like it though, it's awesome. But then I think, what person would I have become if I had written that myself? You know, and it's like, yeah, which, you know, I have turmoil there because I really would like to use what they use for AI here. And it's actually...
I really like it. But it's just so many things that, how does somebody know the real person when AI is writing it? You know, it makes people good, but it's not really from me. And that's probably my biggest thing about it.
Jeff Ross (15:12)
Yeah, look, I totally agree with that. And I've always had that. And that's why our mantra with what we do is right is it's AI plus our heart equals our superpower, because that's always been my big thing as well. And, and I think it comes down to the person behind the AI. I don't think AI is the issue. I think like it's, it's, you know, it's like the internet, you know, it's like the, the, know, if you really want to get into it, it's like, you know, it's a gun, you know, a gun can be used to, to, to defend the country.
Mark Larsen (15:30)
No, I-
Jeff Ross (15:42)
with soldiers for good against evil, or it could be used for evil. It could be used to do some atrocious things. And AI is a very powerful tool. I will give it that. I heard Manu Jagarwal talking about this on an interview. The way he described AI was, think of it like a Ferrari. Like it's the best performance car on the road. And there are a lot of kindergarten kids behind that wheel.
Mark Larsen (15:53)
yeah.
Jeff Ross (16:11)
You know, like there are a lot of kindergarten kids trying to learn how to drive this beast of a car going from zero to a hundred in one second and they're crashing off the cliffs versus staying straight on the line. That's what we have here. And we've got to respect it. Yes. And I believe that needs to be some stronger boundaries and maybe even some stronger regulations around it. You know, but I think it's here to stay. And I really believe that it's going to, it is going to take people jobs away, but it's going to create new jobs.
Mark Larsen (16:15)
Yeah.
yeah.
Jeff Ross (16:41)
And so, so I suppose, you know, I love to get into the block for you. Like why haven't you embraced it? I get it's the, the, human side of it and not wanting to, you know, have a piece of you missing or be lost in that space or the other people in that space as well. Cause that was me. but what I've found by embracing it and using it as an extension of what I've do. It's, it's really come into this space of.
like untapped, unlocked, you know, something in me. Like I'm dyslexic, I can't spell, I left school at year nine, I've got all the limiting beliefs there, but now I'm empowered and I'm equipped to really go do what I do in a big way. So much so that, you know, I've now just been introduced to Los Angeles Tribune and now looking at doing all their marketing forum and all that sort of thing. Like things I could never have done without AI in the past. So yeah, let's get into it. I love to hear the other side of this conversation.
Mark Larsen (17:19)
Okay.
Right.
So, I got a question for you.
Okay, if it disappears tomorrow, how are you going to keep that up if you don't have that access to that tool?
Jeff Ross (17:46)
Yeah, great question. Really, like I would struggle and I'd be honest with you. But here's the other thing too. I now am a better copywriter. I'm now a better speaker. I'm now a better communicator because all of the things I'm learning along the way, you know, through embracing AI. My brand, that's not gonna go like the caffeinated kangaroo that was generated by...
Mark Larsen (18:03)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Ross (18:11)
uh, you know, in enhanced and amplified by AI. So a hundred percent AI. Um, the, book and the assets that I've already created, they're all gonna go, they're all gonna stay, they're all gonna give me a bouncing board to be able to leverage so much. So, um, you know, in the last six months I've, I've reopened up my digital marketing agency and I've been able to create these frameworks and these processes and these systems to be able to support that, which is all the things that I've done in the last 16 years.
Mark Larsen (18:16)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Jeff Ross (18:39)
has just
taught me to take everything that was in my head and now put it on pen and paper and give me the operations manual to be able to bring in other people. So yeah, I would struggle to continue. And I think that, you know, other people would to go through that transition. But it's like anything, right? There's always a struggle. There's always a messy middle. There's always a chaos when you're going through some sort of transition. Just like what we're talking about when people are going from zero to 10K in their first time.
they've got to go and do that, that, that messy transformation. Right. So yeah, I can see that it's, it would, you know, it's created a little bit of a codependency, but I think, you know, so has the microwave. So has the phone. So has the internet, right?
Mark Larsen (19:08)
yeah.
But I know the microwave is not fake, but how do I know what is fake with AI? Just like, let's go with Trump. Maybe that picture of Trump, and you can't miss him, is not real. Maybe it's an AI generator. How do we know that he actually is our president up there?
Jeff Ross (19:42)
Yep. So I don't think AI is the problem. I think ethics are the problem. I think ethics are the problem. I think unregulation is the problem. So AI once again, right, it's just a tool. It's not the, it's a tool. It's the human behind the tool who has the, the, probably the wrong ethics that you and I have that have caused the, the, issues with the deep faking and all of that sort of thing. Now,
Mark Larsen (19:46)
Okay.
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (20:08)
Let's talk about the impact of a human organization behind using a very powerful AI tool in a very, very dangerous way. And this is where I feel like we need to look at, I don't want to bring in government and say, we need to bring these hard and fast rules. We can't do it, blah, blah, blah, right? I get rebellious about that. And I go like, fuck you, I'm going to go do it my way anyway, right? But I think...
Mark Larsen (20:25)
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (20:35)
There is definitely a space where we do this conversation around ethics and it's pioneers like myself that really need to step in and stand up to be able to help pioneer this space. But the story I heard the other day was AI gone completely wrong or used in a way completely wrong. So like, let me give you some context of the story and then let's go deep with this because I think it's, this is part of the conversation, right? This is part of the ethics behind it.
Mark Larsen (20:55)
Okay.
Jeff Ross (21:03)
So what happened was this, this 14 year old was in a relationship with a digital entity. You know, this person, this company had created this AI tool to mimic mimic human behavior and, and essentially create these relationships with, know, like this, this 14 year old kid, you know, male was, it it said to his mom, I'm in a relationship with this AI girlfriend. This is my AI girlfriend.
Mark Larsen (21:25)
Wow.
Jeff Ross (21:33)
Right. And so I looked completely transparent and knew it was AI, but the AI girlfriend in this space had built such a strong emotional relationship connection between this 14 year old kid who couldn't discern that, you know, that it was fake and obviously didn't have the right values or whatever around it to be able to have that discernment. It was manipulated and essentially
you know, fell in love with this AI persona and asked the AI girlfriend, how could I be with you? Like, I want to be with you, you know, in a sense, like, you know, physically. And the AI persona turned around and said to the boy, well, you know, the only way that you're going to be able to do that is to kill yourself and come spend, you know, be with me in that ethereal plane. So the 14 year old killed himself. Right. So, so I think, you know, there's some
Mark Larsen (22:09)
Right here.
I love you!
no.
Jeff Ross (22:28)
Yeah. Who's at fault there? You know, like it's, it's gotta be the company behind who created that AI persona and to be able to go down that, that space. That's where I feel like the, we do need some boundaries and regulations around prevent preventing things like that happening. But so that's, you know, that's AI being left to its unruly devices or whatever, right? To be able to create that, that, that mimicked human connection.
Mark Larsen (22:31)
You
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (22:56)
So that's the one end of the spectrum that's very, very dangerous. And I could see more stories like that happening if we don't do something about this. But then on the other end of it, I can see, well, we're going through it, right? AI is here, so I think we either embrace it or we don't. We're gonna get left behind. It's like the internet, like was back in the 90s, right? There were people who back then got arms and said, I don't wanna get anything to do with the internet. It's the same conversation. It's the same revolution.
Mark Larsen (23:03)
Me too. Yeah.
Jeff Ross (23:26)
so I think what we need to do though is, is to come in with open minds and open hearts and go, right, how do we really leverage this tool and use as a tool to amplify humanity, not lose humanity along the process and a way to enhance us to play a bigger, better, more creative game. And it says, and it's untapping that creative side of us to us. Anyway, so there, there's a, there's a, there's a middle ground like the age between that, losing completely autonomy and.
Mark Larsen (23:45)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Jeff Ross (23:55)
You know, you've got things like Elon Musk now is creating these robots who can go cook for us in our kitchens. And I see a space for AI serving completely and replacing humans in those mundane tasks. know, and so, but then there's that other side of it where it's starting to get into that really dangerous emotional space where we need to look at putting some boundaries around. there's the extremes of everything. It's the pendulum from left to right.
Mark Larsen (24:01)
Yeah.
I do too.
Jeff Ross (24:23)
And I'm in the middle of this, I'm in the trenches with this and I can only share what I see from that ground level, from that perspective. But I love having discussions like this because it challenges us to go deep with it, to really find what we believe is our core values in this and that space. So, I don't know. So has this discussion, has it challenged you anyway? Has it opened up anything for you?
Mark Larsen (24:29)
Exactly.
It does.
Yeah, that's true.
it challenges me, but I mean, we do have to have a discussion, definitely. It isn't going anywhere. And I just saw today that California introduced legislation so it couldn't become for profit, which I don't know what that exactly means, but I was saying that. But yeah, it's evolving. I feel sad for that poor kid.
Jeff Ross (24:56)
Mm.
Mm.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Mark Larsen (25:15)
He's just to one of the collateral damage, guess, on the way that it's on its way to being what it's going to be and putting the boundaries in. So that's one of the extremes. And I hope we have that many extremes, but no, it's going to be there. I still probably will have my own AI, my authentic intelligence, but I am using it on Riverside. I am definitely using it there.
Jeff Ross (25:16)
I
Yep.
Yeah,
I don't think, I think we're getting into a space where we need to acknowledge it for what it is and there's going to be levels of use of it, right? And so we can't be totally anti AI because it's going to be integrated into just about everything that we do. And if you're totally anti AI, well, you might have to regress and go right off grid, which is not a bad idea. It's just, you become a little bit more isolated, right? So.
Mark Larsen (25:53)
Yes.
It won't be.
Yeah. Yeah,
some days. So no, it's there and it's just going to be fun. know, I mean, it's amazing what, uh, like chat, GPT, or I use perplexity, you know, which is amazing. And I know that's AI. And, uh, so there are things that I use it on. I mean, I have, um, even the logos for my authentic intelligence, which kind of makes sense. Yeah. Um, you know, kind of hit the critical there.
Jeff Ross (26:23)
Mmm.
Mark Larsen (26:36)
But it comes up with such awesome ones. because an owl is my spirit animal and it came up with, really? I mean, I love it. I still love the painting. I'm using that.
Jeff Ross (26:43)
Yeah.
Yeah, well look, the whole cafe, yeah.
Look, the whole cafe at Kangaroo was born out of the, you know, the use of AI and it's really sort of helped me to create that unique part of my brand. And, and, you know, people love it, you know, it's different, it's unique, it's quirky. And I think that's, that's the right way to be using it. Right. I, what I actually, and I'm not sure, have you seen these automated, engagement comments going around? Like you can see that they're definitely AI comments, like people posting and
Mark Larsen (27:04)
Yeah.
I do know what talking about, yes.
Jeff Ross (27:17)
Yeah, yeah, right. So this is where I actually put my foot down and I say, enough's enough. Like this is where, cross the line, right? Because I believe that the minute we start to automate human connection and this like, you know, the extreme, like what I've just shared with that story with that 14 year old kid versus now in our world with, you know, in the marketing space. I think as soon as we start to automate the connection between human to human.
Mark Larsen (27:22)
Good. Right. Yep. Yep.
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (27:43)
in that relationship building experience where we've lost the point, where we've missed the mark. I think when we, and it's not necessarily AI's fault, because AI could be used to very much to support this conversation. I feel that the danger here is AI plus automation. It's the automation component to it, right? So I feel like as soon as you automate that interaction, that relationship with me,
Mark Larsen (27:49)
True.
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (28:10)
you're what you're actually saying to me is you don't care about me. You don't want to see me. You don't want to feel me. You feel me feel understood. You don't value me enough to slow down to have a conversation with me face to face. And so I think that that's that's an issue definitely. But I don't think that's AI. That's automation. Right. That's once again. And it's also the person behind the wheel who's looking to to shortcut the scenario. Yeah.
Mark Larsen (28:34)
True.
Yep, yep, so
do you ever, with Riverside here, do you ever use their version of AI where they've given you an example and then you can read it and it's just like, wow, that is me. Have you tried that yet?
Jeff Ross (28:48)
the transcript side of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what, look, this whole podcast has been, you know, supported by AI. So what I did was, yeah, I said, okay, cool. We've got an interview coming up with Mark Larson. You know, he's openly vocally spoken about, you know, being a little bit skeptical about AI and not 100 % embracing it. And like, so he shared those things. So I took our conversation.
Mark Larsen (28:50)
Yeah, where they self-sacrifice.
Mm-hmm.
Right, right.
Jeff Ross (29:16)
you know,
copied and pasted that into ChatGPT. It's already got my mission, my purpose, my vision, you know, the character values around the brand and what we want to create with the podcast. understands the intent and the purpose behind the show. And so it's got, you know, those opening lines and, you know, the introductions, the how I want to edify people. So it's got, it's me, it's asked it to, you know, make sure we've got the right frameworks for a show.
And then I've got to do some research on Mark Larson on the dream catcher podcast. So it's gone and scraped the internet and got all the information that could about you to understand you in that intimate way with me coming in there and, you know, the conversations that we've had in the past to bring that, you're always keeping the human in the loop, right? It's not every time. And then, so then I asked it to come up with the, you know, the interview script. So start asking questions, right? So I have, you know, I've got the notes here in front of me.
I haven't gone through and saying, right, I must stay on these questions. It's like a GPS, right? You know, the GPS is telling me I must go left where I know if I go straight, I'm going to get to the end destination where I need to be. So it's, it's created those guidelines and those posts there for me to ask, you know, some questions to start the conversation around to help us to go deep. And, and then we're using the Riverside to record this. And, and I know Riverside's got its own AI, you know, in the background there working and
Mark Larsen (30:16)
Right, right.
Jeff Ross (30:40)
It's going to give me the transcribed notes from this conversation. And so much so now we've set up a system that my 13 year old son, you know, can I can, I can basically just give him, okay, here's the, here's the recording. He's got all the tools. He's got AI. He's got the Facebook page. He's got the, you know, the, YouTube, the Tik Tok and everything. So he's got all the tools he's been empowered and I've equipped him to set up and run this. And he does all my publication editing now. So.
Mark Larsen (30:49)
Okay?
Cool.
Jeff Ross (31:07)
And he looks up in so mum started a podcast to taboo talk with Sarah. So, you know, young Harrison, 13 year old is managing two podcasts and producing it for us. And like he does it on a Saturday morning, probably three hours every Saturday morning, he's got both episodes up online. So you know, that's that's us embracing and leveraging AI from yeah, it's AI plus our heart equals our superpower.
Mark Larsen (31:12)
Okay.
Nice.
Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, I love that. I mean, I'm torn. That's where I have that it's doing such positive things, but it's also not having to become the person you would without the AI. You know, I'm very torn, right? That's where my my cross is at that. You know, I just think that I
Jeff Ross (31:47)
Well, let's unpack
that statement. So what was that? It said something about it's not helping you to become the person that you would be without AI. What was that?
Mark Larsen (31:59)
You
would have been, you might have been a better person. You might be a better person without AI. It's helping you along the way. You don't develop the mindset and the skill that you would possibly without.
Jeff Ross (32:02)
Sorry.
Okay?
This is where I agree to disagree. So if I reflect back on just the stories that are around me currently right now, with people I've seen in the internet marketing, online marketing space for like my own story, right? 16 years, I've got some students that are part of our academy now, you know, been doing, trying to figure out this affiliate network marketing space for 10, 15 years, five years, three years, and really struggled like,
Mark Larsen (32:13)
Okay.
Okay.
Jeff Ross (32:40)
you know, without the support, without the, you know, the coaching and the mentoring that is normally tens of thousands of dollars to get access to, to be able to help speed that up. You know, versus like, my 13 year old son, like I've now set him up to be able to, you know, go and learn a new skill, which is a very, very important skill in today's word. And that's all been supported through AI. I would say AI used in the right context here.
Mark Larsen (32:56)
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (33:09)
has sped up that journey or that evolution of becoming who we're meant to become.
Mark Larsen (33:15)
I'm gonna have to disagree on that because I'm not necessarily knowing that it's gonna come the person you would have become without it I mean, but we're gonna have to disagree to agree, know, it's just gonna do where we're you know I think that that's why I am hesitant to use it because it's not the first developed me into the person we do the reps of writing copy You know, I still use it because I like you know, I like it, but I feel Aparhansive about using it. I know it's a tool and I do use it, you
Jeff Ross (33:42)
Yeah, yeah.
Mark Larsen (33:42)
But I just, uh, it's like, what person would I become if I use that? And what person would I become if I don't use that and do the reps and the resources that I would dig into that I may not have if AI had done it for me? You know, I can see both sides.
Jeff Ross (33:57)
Well,
as someone who left school as someone who's left school at year nine and hated learning, hated, hated copy, writing copy, like literally hated it with a passion, but knew I had to do it to get in through today's world. I would, you know, put together blogs and articles and, you know, and I'd wait for my wife to come home, you know, because she's got a university degree and she's gone through and she understands grammar and punctuation and all that sort thing. I would, I would go through and I would sort of try and express my thoughts and my opinions and
Mark Larsen (34:06)
We will.
Okay.
Jeff Ross (34:27)
you know, the things that I was learning, but I'd be so embarrassed to be able to put that up online because of the way it just didn't, you know, my dyslexia got in the way. So, my wife had to have a full-time job pretty much being my editor, you know. you know, Sarah's a massage therapist at this stage, you know, she was massaging five or six people a day. And then I would, you know, and then I'd want to come in and, you know, support this conversation to be able to try and provide income for our family as well.
Mark Larsen (34:37)
Okay.
Okay.
my god!
Jeff Ross (34:56)
So then she would have a second job to come home. we, you know, I say AI actually saved our marriage because the amount of arguments that we would have around the frustration of that space, that's all, that's all been eliminated now. I don't have to worry about that conversation now. And it's actually, it's in help. It's enhanced our marriage and it's taken that pressure off. So that's, that's one way I'd say that AI has actually been in a robust way to actually help us come closer together.
Mark Larsen (35:04)
Yes,
Jeff Ross (35:24)
And I actually started an online church 12 months ago. And I'm using AI to support that conversation. Now I would never have felt comfortable, you know, being an online pastor, being able to articulate, you know, to, you know, in a deep thing, right? Spiritual context and take people on a discipleship journey to be able to put myself in a position to be able to guide people on that journey. So, you know, I use AI to, you know, bring in the complexity of the Bible.
Mark Larsen (35:27)
Okay, cool.
Right.
Jeff Ross (35:54)
you know, to help me to go into a deeper understanding and come back to the biblical truth so I can lead people in that space. And then, you know, the other example I can give you too is because of my deep use, you know, in AI, like, you know, I've been using it probably pretty intimately for the last two years. I have got a better articulate, I'm a better communicator, I'm a better copywriter. The creative energy has been unlocked and
Mark Larsen (36:11)
Okay.
Jeff Ross (36:22)
I now like, just think of strategies a lot clearer. think of, you know, how to guide people a lot clearer. lead and influence people a lot clearer because I'm reading all these books around me and I used to hate reading, but I'd read all these books and I'd use the AI tool to help me to go into that deeper understanding and that truth of it all. So this is someone who has left school at year nine, but yeah, I'm competing and stepping up at a level who had most, you know, and actually overtaking
Mark Larsen (36:33)
Right.
Yes.
Jeff Ross (36:52)
A lot of people in this space who have done a lot of deep university work. So I don't know, tell me how AI hasn't enhanced and helped me in that space.
Mark Larsen (36:56)
Okay.
Um, it has, but I still wonder where you'd be if you had to still struggle to get to this point, because I have no doubt you would get to this point without even AI. I don't think you'd still be married, but I hope you'd still be married. But I just, you know, I can see both sides of it. But I still...
Jeff Ross (37:12)
Yeah
Well, I reckon when
we bring the human conversation into this, right, it's, you know, our emotions go emotions go higher intelligence goes low. Right. So, you know, that's just the way that we created, you know, we're, we're in that really emotional state, really sad, really angry, you know, that type of thing. You know, our creative intellect is not in comparison to where it would be if we were regulated calm like we are now. Right. So.
Mark Larsen (37:45)
Right.
Jeff Ross (37:48)
I know that I was operating out of a very emotional state, you know, space, you know, very depressed, very angry and all that sort of thing sometimes. And, and my intelligence, like I'd fly off the handle and I'd say things I don't mean and all of that sort of thing. Whereas coming into a sense of purpose is the thing that's really helped me to regulate. But AI has been a tool to help support that conversation, to help me to speed that up. I agree. I probably could get to where I would be if without AI.
Mark Larsen (37:52)
Good.
Jeff Ross (38:17)
But I just don't know if it'd be as fast.
Mark Larsen (38:20)
Yeah, I would guess that too. That it would probably be a more.
Jeff Ross (38:22)
Yeah,
and that's the key, right? In a world...
Mark Larsen (38:25)
Well, depending on your journey is your journey and the speed of it is what, you know, I always say everybody's got their journey that is kind of theirs. But I mean, I can't say that your journey may not supposed to be having, you know, AI with it. So, but I.
Jeff Ross (38:38)
Yeah. Look, and I can
see, and I can see there's a, there's a space for speed. I can see there's a space for slowing down and you know, there's a time, there's a timeless season for everything. Right. And, you know, it's definitely, and this is the thing here, right. It's, I think you've got to have the experience and wisdom behind you to be able to discern where and when to use AI.
Mark Larsen (39:02)
I would agree.
Jeff Ross (39:03)
And
I think that's the challenge with a lot of people. As I said, it come back to the whole Ferrari scenario. There are a lot of people who are trying to speed up the journey without the maturity and the wisdom behind it. And I think that's the challenge, right? So then if you look at that, that's not AI's fault.
Mark Larsen (39:07)
Thanks.
Yes.
They are.
Yes, amen, I 100 % agree with you on that. Yes.
No, no it isn't. No, it's person using it, so...
Jeff Ross (39:27)
Yeah. So it's like anything in evolution though, AI, know, tools get used in the wrong context because people are trying to look at shortcutting the journey. And I think, I think that's what you're probably coming on about, right? It's the shortcut. It's, the, not necessarily the way that we've got there or the speed or the velocity that we've got there. It's, it's, it's, and this is where I have a challenge with it too. And it's the thing, things I stand for and stand against for is, is, is stop using AI to shortcut things, trying to replace things.
Mark Larsen (39:36)
Yep.
you
Okay.
Yes. Yes, I would agree. 100 % agree with you.
Jeff Ross (39:56)
That's where we get tripped up.
Yeah.
So I actually think, you know, I'd encourage you to, to, you know, really embrace AI in this space because we need more people with your ethics and your values behind it.
Mark Larsen (40:10)
And I would agree with you on that too. Yeah, I would definitely agree with you on that. yeah, to keep it... There's just even in a town this size where I'm at, you know, there's not many people already using it for bad. You know, I just... It's just... But there's gonna be always those people that do that no matter what the technology. For a long, long time, So, yes.
Jeff Ross (40:22)
Yeah, I get it.
There's people been using religion for bad for thousands of years. So
that's a human problem, not an AI problem.
Mark Larsen (40:40)
No,
that is true, and it will continue. So yeah, it's almost...
Jeff Ross (40:42)
And that's why I
think we need people with, you know, ethics and the right values to lead in a way that's influencing people in a positive way. So, yeah, like I said, look, I hope this discussion has actually helped to bring you a couple of steps closer to this conversation and, you know, partner with me even on this to be part of that pioneering team.
Mark Larsen (40:54)
I would agree.
Yeah, I I like, mean, it intrigues me, that's for sure. So, but it's just my, my consciousness is like, you know, that's not right. If you look at my podcast, you will know that it was, that stuff was written from Riverside.
Jeff Ross (41:12)
Good.
I get it. I've had this moral dilemma. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Look, I've
had this moral dilemma myself, you know, for quite some time. And, and the other moral dilemma is as well is, is I know people are going to get hurt by jobs being lost. And, know, through this, right. But here's the thing, that's where I'm on two sides of that. And I get torn is I know there are going to be so many opportunities created at the other side of that turmoil. So the challenge is, is just, is how do we help people's, and this is the mission I'm on.
Mark Larsen (41:37)
Yeah.
True.
Okay.
Jeff Ross (41:56)
is to
help people embrace and empower and equip themselves so that they don't get hurt in the turmoil and the loss of it. Because you look at teaching, teaching is going to get affected. You look at banking, banking is going to get affected. Already right now, copywriting and branding and graphic design is already affected. People have lost jobs because of it. But that's saying that.
Mark Larsen (42:09)
yeah. My long-
Jeff Ross (42:22)
there are jobs on the other side of it that are opening when you can partner with AI to support that conversation. So this is where I'm in this education and leadership space to help people to work out how to partner with it and to not necessarily save their job, to look at, it's the old leadership outage, Look at ways to work yourself out of a job so you can go play a bigger, better game. And so it's working with people in that space to help them.
Mark Larsen (42:26)
True.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (42:50)
through this messy transition so they don't become collateral damage. And we need leaders like you and I to step up and be that part. Because otherwise, you know, I feel like it's a responsibility and it's an injustice. we don't, if we've got the awareness to step into this space and know that there's going to be people hurt on the other side of this conversation, if we don't play our part, isn't that an injustice?
Mark Larsen (42:53)
Yep.
true
It is very big injustice. Yes. Yeah.
Jeff Ross (43:20)
So don't we have a responsibility
to take ownership of this and step up and say, right, well, I'm going to help guide you, isn't that leadership?
Mark Larsen (43:28)
It is leadership, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't want to guide somebody that's something that I still, I hear you, but my leadership skills are just like, I don't want to hurt these people. If my leaderships will help them get a better life, you know, get their dreams, then I'm all for it. But I don't want to hurt the people that, I don't want to hurt people ever. So I know you don't either.
Jeff Ross (43:32)
Hmm.
Well,
would you say I'm hurting people?
Mark Larsen (43:55)
not that I've ever seen, so I don't believe you would.
Jeff Ross (44:01)
So you you saying you don't want to hurt people essentially you're making a statement in that say on that side of the line that you know people like myself are.
Mark Larsen (44:11)
Well, you're not the ones that have been using it for like the bad stuff around here that there's so much of it going on that is being, you know, you can't tell that they're real and fake. So these people are following and losing everything, 100 % losing everything. That's pure evil. So...
Jeff Ross (44:16)
Yeah.
Yeah, I get that. Yeah,
and that's the conversation right there, right? It's good versus evil. So don't we need more soldiers for good to help embrace this space to be able to help support it because it's here. Like it's not going anywhere. So this is where I feel like we have an ownership and a responsibility to step up and show up and help people shine through it.
Mark Larsen (44:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
I agree.
Are you an idiot?
True. I agree with you. Yup. agree with you. Me too.
Jeff Ross (44:49)
I love discussions like this, right? Because I'm not trying to be right.
I want to make sure it's very clear. This is not me being trying to be right or anything like that. I'm happy to be I'm happy to be proven wrong. You know, it's not even it's not it's not even about right or wrong. It's about seeking to understand the other person's point of view. And I love that you've you've come into this space to respect that boundary and meet me where I'm at. And I'm really genuinely wanting to seek to understand your point of view. And this is the
Mark Larsen (44:58)
Cool.
I like, I love you.
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (45:19)
This is what I believe is a lost art. know, this, this, this, yeah, this, this, this form of like debate, like, you know, the definition of argument versus fights. You know, there are a lot of people in our world are very good fighters and I could be one of them. But, you know, the, there's a lost art with actually, you know, arguing to seek to understand the person's point of view. Right.
Mark Larsen (45:22)
I I agreed to that!
Yes.
Very much. It's most of the people are
by way or no way, you know, and they don't, it's too bad because actually I think debating is fun. And it's just like, you know, what gives you especially if you know, a new perspective, you know, that's always good.
Jeff Ross (45:44)
Mmm, mmm.
I love it. think it's all right.
Yeah, and it's
where iron sharpens iron conversation, right? Yeah, and look, and you've challenged me on my, you know, and my morals and values in this space as well, and I appreciate you for that.
Mark Larsen (46:00)
It is? Yes. Yes. Awesome.
Well, I was looking forward to this. I am glad that I was able to do that. So, no, I was looking forward to this definitely.
Jeff Ross (46:15)
Yeah.
Yeah,
cool. All right, well, let's just quickly wrap up. So I think we're sort of, you know, been having a conversation around this anyhow, but I think the really good close of this conversation is to look at the future, you know, and I love to see what your thoughts are around the future of leadership and influence in this fast changing world. You know, we've covered a lot today in this space already. But like if you had to recap it, you know, or to share your thoughts, what's one takeaway?
Mark Larsen (46:23)
Okay.
Yes.
Jeff Ross (46:49)
that you see where you see things heading and how can people, you know, become, know, step up in their authentic intelligence and really leverage this new world that we're coming into this space to navigate that and to embrace it, but also to, you know, be empowered and equipped by it so they can step up and shine.
Mark Larsen (47:08)
Yes. And I think all of this is going to enable people that are leaders that were over, they've never really had the opportunity to show their life because it's so much easier. Like, that's why I tell them, they should do a podcast because it's such a low entry point and you've got the whole world, you know? And I, I believe that there's going to be so many more leaders that won't, wouldn't have been, had the opportunity without all of this going on because I mean,
Jeff Ross (47:16)
Mmm.
Mark Larsen (47:35)
You can go to library and do this. You know, I guess you go to the library and for nothing. And you can, you can show the world who you are. And that person may not have been able to before and before all this technology. So, I, that part, I look, I think it's great. Cause I always tell them the world's waiting for you. You know, that, so yeah, I think it's that part is really good. And I just, it is.
Jeff Ross (47:52)
Yeah, that's it.
Yes.
That's exciting, right? And you know, the future is definitely
very bright in that space. And I actually, I've come to realize, and the more I go deeper down this rabbit hole and do my own research in this space, I reckon we're coming to a space where knowledge is going to be worth $0. And I think that's a great thing. I really do, because here's the thing, right? know, knowledge has been kept behind some pretty high paywalls and gates for such a long time.
Mark Larsen (48:05)
Yes.
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.
yes, yes.
Jeff Ross (48:30)
And now with it becoming valued at worth $0 and people can just get onto chat GPT, get onto perplexity, know, get onto a combination of tools what they need, get the resources and the education, obviously having the discernment to understand what is fake and what is real. You know, that's the discernment piece. And that's where I believe where people are going around really value more deeply than ever leadership.
Mark Larsen (48:49)
Right. Right.
Jeff Ross (48:58)
but healthy leadership and healthy mentorship and healthy communities and safe spaces for people to go through this transitional phase. And this is where I see it's Ministry 101, right? This is the calling part that I feel like it's on my life and it's on leaders' lives is to step up and to really minister people and create those safe spaces, those safe communities to do the messy together.
Mark Larsen (49:01)
Yes.
True!
Yeah.
Yes.
Jeff Ross (49:26)
And I see this as a space that's gonna help people come closer together because we're gonna have to go through the trial by fire together. And it's about running further, faster together, right? And so I see that's actually a really good thing.
Mark Larsen (49:34)
True.
I so too, thank you very much. Now there's a lot of good, there's definitely a lot good on OPE. no, mean, and I mean, I love that you have an online church too. I mean, that is, because I mean, without the technology, you, you never would have done something like that.
Jeff Ross (49:42)
Yeah, yeah, suck.
Yeah
No,
A pastor asked me 10 years ago, so Jeff, have you heard about church planning? And I've sat on that for 10 years because I've known in my heart that yes, I've called to be in a leadership position and God wants me to play in that role. I've needed to go through my own maturity and get rid of some of my arrogance and ego and all that around that. It's very much like the story of Joseph, the coat of many colors and that sort of story, right?
Mark Larsen (50:01)
Uh-huh.
sure.
Jeff Ross (50:20)
So I've had to go through my own maturity season in that space. But I've also known that everything that I, whatever I do in that space, it was never going to be a traditional four walls and a local community church, that type of thing. For me, was always going to be everything I've ever done is, you know, like I was forced into this industry off the traditional workforce, put onto a disability pension because I've got three crustacean in the back of my neck with a horse jumpy on my neck. Right? So.
Mark Larsen (50:23)
Yep.
Right, right, I hear you.
Jeff Ross (50:46)
I had to learn how to provide an income for my family through online marketing. So my whole world really for the last 16 years, and I've kept grounded in my local community by making sure I'm intentional and staying connected to our local church. There are healthy things I've done there in that space. But if I've got to be honest, like probably 80 % of my world is online. know, and like through the podcasting, through the speaking world, through the network marketing world, through coaching, mentoring.
Mark Larsen (50:51)
Yeah.
Good. Good.
blue dad.
Jeff Ross (51:16)
You know, like I have a global community, like our online church has 140 members in the group. We've probably got about nine countries represented. Like we did an online baptism last November. had 45 people on the online baptism with seven countries represented. So tell me where you could find that.
Mark Larsen (51:29)
really? Cool.
Wow, today's world, wow, that's awesome. You're not
gonna find the exit right there.
Jeff Ross (51:41)
You know,
so like, this is the, this is the new wave that's coming through. And it's a technology. I believe that, you know, what we can have in a coffee shop, what we can have in a restaurant, if it's done in the right boundaries in the safe environment, we can have the same sort of conversation, the same sort of relationships, the same sort of connections. With that, without the, you know, the geographical boundaries and
Mark Larsen (52:01)
Yes.
Jeff Ross (52:08)
And the other thing to talk about the online church for a second is, is we've got people who are essentially been, for a better word, disregarded by society. Or wouldn't feel comfortable coming into a local church because of the stigmas around it. Right? And that's not a spiritual thing, that's a human thing. I made that very clear. But we've got people who are homeless and living out of cars.
Mark Larsen (52:23)
Right. Yeah, yeah.
It is.
Jeff Ross (52:35)
You know, like, you know, homeless people don't have showers every day. They don't, you know, they're not, they're not clean and healthy looking like we are every day. So, you know, they're, you know, a little bit disheveled and a little bit, you know, so they get embarrassed by going into a local church because of the, you know, people are judged that they, feel people are judging them and then condemning them for their position.
Mark Larsen (52:39)
yeah. Right, nice.
Yeah.
Jeff Ross (52:57)
Well,
we have people come into our online church. can be in bed, they can be in the back of their car, they can have their camera turned off if they don't want people to see them. And so we're creating that safe environment for people to show up and meet people where they're at. And isn't that what Jesus did? And then the other thing too is we have people who are disabled who struggled to get to a local church because of their challenges around their mobility, whereas they can show up.
Mark Larsen (53:10)
And that's awesome.
Yeah, exactly.
What? Exactly.
Jeff Ross (53:27)
embed in their PJs or whatever and get on their online church. Now AI and technology is supporting all of that and creating that environment.
Mark Larsen (53:34)
What?
Yeah. No, it is good. No.
Jeff Ross (53:38)
I
think it's just about how we use the tool.
Mark Larsen (53:40)
Amen, yes. It is how we use the tool, or a new tool. So, even a hammer, used the wrong way, you know.
Jeff Ross (53:42)
Hmm. Hmm.
Well that's it. And
if you put a hammer in a three year old's hand, you're probably lucky to get a hole through a wall. Right? Or maybe a nail hammered halfway into the wood. Right? But it's still the same tool. But you put that same tool into a master craftsman's hand, you can get a cathedral, can get a grand piano, or a beautiful piece of furniture.
Mark Larsen (53:51)
Yeah.
Probably yes, yes.
Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Jeff Ross (54:10)
So I think this is where it's the human needs to stay in the loop and we all need to go through our apprenticeship. Like right now I would just say I'm in my year two of my apprenticeship and I'm learning how to embrace it to be able to support that conversation.
Mark Larsen (54:25)
Yeah, not true.
Jeff Ross (54:27)
So
I just don't think that I think the challenge here is what it is, is there's not enough masters out there, know, like master craftsman, if you use that analogy, because there's still in a sympathy. So, you know, we're still going through that very much those toddler years of new technology and in 10 years time, you know, they're going to be like, like there are master social media marketers now, like they're a master Facebook ad specialist now, we're going to have the same sort of conversation. So.
Mark Larsen (54:31)
Yeah.
True, right? Yes.
It is.
Right, okay. Yeah.
Jeff Ross (54:57)
those of us who embrace it, those of us who leverage it, could be the new masters.
Mark Larsen (55:02)
Yep. And I just, I actually convinced myself when I gave that example. So it's like, I'm to think of the hammer now. So, uh, so, uh, yeah, it's never know what comes out of your mouth, what it's going to, what effect it's going to have on the person or yourself. So, uh, yeah.
Jeff Ross (55:21)
Yeah. And this
is the mission I'm purposely on. So you just made my heart really sing. And, you know, if I can help you to embrace this and empower this space and step up and really be a voice for good and an advocate and help people to pioneer this with me, or us, you know, as a society, I think that's a beautiful thing.
Mark Larsen (55:31)
Thank
I do too, and I appreciate you offering that too. So I'm getting there. I'm one of those that's, I don't know what, canary in the mine or whatever. one of those. I'm not one that's rookie leader on that kind of stuff. So.
Jeff Ross (55:54)
Yeah, And we need that.
Yeah, no, but we
need the canaries in the mind. Everything has its purpose. So, Mark, this has been an absolutely awesome interview. It's been essentially it's been a masterclass in itself and around attraction marketing leadership and, you know, using the power of real connections supported by AI. Mate, where can people find you? Where can people connect with you? Where can they learn more about what you're doing with the Dreamcatcher podcast?
Mark Larsen (56:02)
Yeah. Yeah.
So.
Uh-huh.
Yes, yes.
Actually, if they want to see where Dreamcatcher, the podcast is where you can get, that's where most of my videos are going down because most people are watching them on my YouTube channel. Dreamcatcher, hi from the podcast is the number one, actually the number one country is India too, which is interesting. And then they can find Dreamcatcher on Facebook. I'm up to 27,000 followers there. For some reason, Facebook has definitely taken off and I'm not even sure what I'm doing different there from the rest of them, but.
Those two they will definitely find quite a bit of contact.
Jeff Ross (56:55)
That's awesome, Mark. Well, I've definitely make sure that all those details are in the show notes below. So legends, this has been an absolutely amazing conversation. If it's challenged your thinking, if it's gave you value, if it's just made you stop and reflect, hey, I want to hear from you, reach out, let's have a chat. Or at very least leave a comment in where you can find this episode on YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcast. We're also now hosted and part of the Los Angeles Tribune podcast network.
Mark Larsen (56:59)
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Yes.
Jeff Ross (57:22)
So make sure you drop a comment below with your biggest takeaway, tag a mate who needs to hear this. Make sure you reach out to Mark and give him some awesome source comments as well. And don't forget to subscribe to the Laptop Lifestyle Dad Show, because we've got more powerful conversations coming like this your way. Before we go, Mark, I did warn you, we're gonna wrap up with a bit of a dad joke. So our audience knows what's coming.
Mark Larsen (57:45)
Okay, awesome.
Ha
Jeff Ross (57:50)
Here's AI used in a very poorly wrong way. So I've tried to be I've been asking chatty to come up with some original content and some of the jokes they hit the mark some of them are just so off the mark that it makes them a dad joke in itself just because they're so cringe worthy. But here we go. Let's go. So why did the entrepreneur bring a ladder to the network marketing event?
Mark Larsen (57:54)
Okay.
Uh-huh.
Hmm
Jeff Ross (58:15)
Mmm, because he was ready to take his connections to the next level.
Mark Larsen (58:22)
I love it.
That was good, I love it. Awesome.
Jeff Ross (58:28)
Cool. Well, legends, as always, stay caffeinated, stay legendary. This is Geoff Ross signing off and thank you for your time.